This talk is worth EVERY SECOND of your time. Dr. Edmund Mazza is a saint in the making, a true scholar of the papacy and I found myself in complete awe when he went back and discussed a POWERFUL quote from Pope Innocent III (I am certain it is the III); the very Pope who approved Saint Francis of Assisi’s rule after having the dream of seeing Saint John Lateran’s Basilica (the official seat of the Pope and home of the Popes before Saint Peter’s was built) falling into ruins and Francis was the one holding it up! Innocent compared the papacy and the Church as joined together in a matrimonial sacrament that only “death” can separate. He even had a work of art made of himself as Pope, crowned, depicted with the Lamb of God from the Book of the Apocalypse and the bride of that Lamb, depicted as a beautiful woman, the bride. I have looked for this piece and have not found it yet and I am HOPING Dr. Mazza, by miracle, out of the dozens of emails he receives, will reply to my inquiry and point me to it so I can post it on here.
ANNOUNCEMENT: GOD IS SO GOOD! As I was finishing up this post, Dr Mazza got back to me in the nick of time and here is the image (very bottom of the work of art you can see Innocent, the Lamb and the Woman:
“Here’s what’s readily available: https://www.wga.hu/html_m/g/grimaldi/apse.html
We’re not sure of the details of how it looked. You can click on the image to make it bigger.
The sacrament between the Roman Pontiff and The Church perseveres so strong and unshakeable, that they cannot be separated from one another ever, except by death.” ~Pope Innocent III~
One of the points Innocent makes by referring to it as a sacrament is that, even though now we have resignations through canon law, Popes should not EVER resign because it should be treated as “until death do us part” and it was quite astonishing that the first time it was introduced in an official way was when Saint Peter Celestine became pope but made the decision to resign because Boniface, who became pope immediately AFTER Celestine, told him he should. Celestine consented and instead of being able to go directly back to his life of solitude as a monk was imprisoned by Boniface. The point here is that the idea of resignation was not even introduced by a holy man, but someone who wanted to be Pope. Who WANTS to be Pope?! Even Father Ripperger said, “anyone who wants to be an exorcist… there is already something wrong with you”. The odd part, and I knew this about the See being vacant for 27 months after Celestine resigned, is how Celestine finally DIED, and two months later the official papal election was held. Mazza was right when he said the timing not only speaks volumes but perhaps confirms what Innocent said all along about popes CAN’T resign because they are bound to the Church until death (whistles).
This all shows us when Benedict said, “the always is also a forever”, even though he is in error with thinking he can bifurcate the papacy, he is still proclaiming truth perhaps without realizing it, and all of this is proof that The Holy Ghost is still at work in the one and only living Vicar of Christ. This is amazing stuff and as the speaker said to Mazza, we MUST educate ourselves because in this way we can defend The Blessed Trinity, Our Lady’s Heart, The Rock of Peter and the Bride of the Lamb: The Catholic Church. “We must now choose sides”, and Sister Lucia of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart is absolutely right in saying so! Because either you will remain in the true Church bound to the Rock of Peter or you will enter into the anti-church; we have souls to save and so if you are wondering why I talk about this subject so much, while I have this time to do so, it is because I desperately care about Our Lord’s flock.
8:30 – Dr. Mazza on “What was Benedict XVI doing?” What does Benedict think he accomplished?” He talks about the Peter Seewald interview, and other interviews and statements
11:00 – What are the criterion for being a Pope? Benedict says: the follower of peter is not merely bound to a function (being the Bishop of Rome). The idea that you can have an active Pope, and one which is not.
14:00 – Why he still gives apostolic blessings in his own name, why his title is still His Holiness, why he still wears white and lives in the Vatican.
15:00 – Benedict remains a father in a deep inward sense. Functional vs Sacred.
16:50 – Benedict’s statement about the crisis of the Priesthood after Vatican 2.
20:00 – Statements by Archbishop Georg Gänswein, secretary to Benedict.
26:00 – Benedict may have committed a “substantial error” by trying to abandon his office of pope.
29:00 – Quote from Bergoglio about the “papacy being a sacrament.” (Not in the literal sense, in the sense of it being of sacramental nature). In other words, the idea that “you can never stop being pope until death.”
37:26 – First interpretation – Benedict could resign all public-facing responsibilities, but still be pope. If he believed this, he committed substantial error.
38:45 – Second interpretation – If Benedict thought that by becoming pope gave you a permanent sacramental mission that does not stop by resigning as Bishop of Rome, then you can’t resign.
40:00 – This weekend, Saturday the 27th, there will be a consistory (election of new Cardinals) in Rome, something Francis has not had in about 7 years. However, Pope Francis may visit the shrine of St. Celestine. St. Celestine was the first pope in history to resign, and his anniversary of consecration as bishop in 1294 is this Sunday. Dr. Mazza then talks about the history of St. Celestine.
UPDATE: “Francis praises humility of 13th-century pope who resigned”
50:00 – Dr. Mazza talks about the history of papal resignations, starting with St. Clement.
53:46 – St. Pontian in the year 235.
56:00 – Pope John XII & Leo VIII in the year 963.
58:00 – Pope Benedict IX and Gregory VI
1:00:00 – Pope Innocent the 3rd in 1198 – quotes regarding the papacy being a sacrament (spiritual message).
1:07:30 – Pope Celestine the 5th’s resignation and Pope Boniface VIII.
1:11:00 – Pope Gregory the 12th in the 1400’s – three different “popes,” a Council was held in Constance in 1417.
1:15:00 – Question, Why is knowing who the Pope is important to my Faith?
1:17:45 – Question, What would be the implications for indefectibility and visibility of the church if Benedict passes away leaving Francis in place for some time? Dr. Mazza mentions Innocent II and Anacletus.
1:19:30 – Question, Would Benedict be the oldest living pope in the history of the Church? Yes.
1:19:40 – Question, If Celestine was wrong about the ability to resign, would not that make Boniface VIII an anti-Pope? If Boniface VIII, then would not his addition to the ability of a pope to resign to canon law be a nullify?
1:20:40 – Question, So if Innocent III taught magisterially that the pope is married to his Office, a bond that can only be broken by death, and then a century later Boniface VIII teaches the opposite and changes canon law, because otherwise, Boniface himself would have been antipope… where does this leave us? Would not Innocent’s teaching be infallible as defined at Vatican I?
1:23:00 – Question, If substantial error is a condition for resigning the papacy, would not it also follow that it is a condition for accepting the papacy? If so, and Benedict XVI was in substantial error even before accepting the papacy, would not that mean his acceptance was invalid and ergo he was an antipope?
1:25:00 – George asks Dr. Mazza why Benedict XVI has not put this whole mess to bed by addressing the confusion.
1:31:45 – Question, Bergoglio may not have received permission to accept the papacy from the Jesuit Superior until after his “election,” how could he have accepted without the permission?
1:33:30 – Comment, methinks this is step one of the “papal council.”
1:33:45 – George asks Dr. Mazza what would a Cardinal intervention look like if they stood up and finally called this situation a schism.
1:36:20 – Comment, The person who commented from 1:33:30 added to their comment, saying “democratization of the papacy.”
1:38:40 – Comment, Shia LaBeouf has become Catholic while portraying Padre Pio in an upcoming film. A prayer of thanks for this high-profile witness.
1:39:32 – George comments on modernism and relativism and how Francis is convincing people of new “doctrine,” how people don’t know their faith, and how people don’t know what’s going on.
1:42:50 – Sister Lucy and “diabolical disorientation.”
1:43:30 – Question, Do you think Canon 185 is being misinterpreted? It clearly seems to put forth emeritus as simply a title and not an office in and of itself.
1:44:30 – George talks about Dr. Mazza’s “Pope History” class.
1:46:00 – Transitions to a back-and-forth discussion about Fatima in general, the Miracle of the Sun, Fr. Gruner, and “public prophetic revelation.”
1:48:00 – Comment, “maybe we are supposed to be burning (chastisement).” Transitions into discussion about Our Lady’s message at Akita, about “the living would envy the dead.”Transitions to George talking about the First Five Saturdays.
1:52:30 – Question, “Can we do First Saturdays in a parish location where they are not explicitly recognized during the Mass?” Transitions to discussion regarding the requirements for the First Five Saturdays.
1:57:30 – Question, “What is to argue against a Maccabian-style operation against the Vatican, our church HQ… Is there a reason not to? At this point, what more reason do we need!”
1:58:45 – Question, “To Steel-Man the Argument: What would have to happen, or new evidence would have to emerge, for you to seriously consider that Benedict’s resignation might have been valid and Francis could be pope?”
2:00:00 – Closing statement by George: Encourage and support your priests, they are people to, and need it. Ends with a Hail Mary.